Building a 7-Figure Decluttering Business While Raising 4 Kids with Sarah Mueller

Kinsey Machos: 00:01

I'm Kinsey Machos, your host and founder of the category Queen. Welcome to the podcast for coaches, consultants, and course creators who don't just want to dominate their niche, but they desire to play in their own league. My mission is to help you unlock the power of your unique brilliance and use it as a vehicle to gain recognition, reach more people, and make more money. Not too long ago, I took a bold leap, leaving behind a six figure corporate salary with nothing more than a used MacBook and a burning desire for more freedom. Today, our brand has become globally recognized, helping thousands of female founders to become industry leading experts. Join us each week as we go on a journey together to discuss mindset, marketing, and money, and more importantly, the real life discussions about balancing success with motherhood and marriage.

Kinsey Machos: 00:56

Because we're a community of women who build and scale impact driven businesses, but do it without sacrificing the things that matter most to us. Welcome to the category queen show. You are going to love this conversation between myself and Sarah Mueller, who is a multiple seven figure business. And you're going to hear how she went from making $20,000 a year to making multiple seven figures, teaching people how to basically throw stuff away. Her signature offer is the decluttering club, and she has so much wisdom to share here. But here's what's even cooler, is that she did all of this while also raising four kiddos.

Kinsey Machos: 01:43

I'm always looking to women who are balancing all the things, and balance isn't probably the right word to use, but Sarah is such a perfect example of somebody who is going for her biggest desires and also prioritizing the things that matter most to her. We talk about entrepreneurship, marketing strategies, resilience, trusting your intuition, setting boundaries, and of course, she shares how she keeps her life organized and how decluttering can really help you enhance your overall wellbeing. I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation. We really, truly cover the spectrum of all the things, and I know you're gonna walk away feeling just a little bit more inspired than you were yesterday. So enjoy, my friend.

Kinsey Machos: 02:36

Hello, my friends. Welcome back to another episode of the category Queen show. I am so excited to be here with my guest, my dear friend, and really just amazing woman, Sarah Mueller. Sarah, say hello.

Sarah Mueller: 02:53

Oh, hey, Kinsey. Thank you so much for having me. This is a total treat and I'm excited to talk with you.

Kinsey Machos: 03:00

Yes, I am excited for this conversation. We've been trying to line this up for a little bit, and you know, I've been sharing with other interview guests. Just that for a period of time, I stopped doing guest interviews on my podcast, and I realized I was like, you know, I love that people can come to the podcast and get just, like, these little tactical level strategies from these little, these episodes, whether they're short or long.

Kinsey Machos: 03:27

But these, what really, like, what I feel really excited about in this next season is just bringing more women just like you to my listeners and helping, just seeing the variety and flavor within the context of not just entrepreneurship, but of life and what that looks and feels like, because I think that it's really easy to get into the just, like, cookie cutter mentality, thinking that it needs to be one way or look a certain way and just kind of, like, expanding our perspective and also just feeling encouraged and inspired by these conversations. So I'm just excited to have you. And also, I just miss, like, the fun chat and, like, why would we not record these episodes? I think about, like, the amazing conversations we have on the couches at the masterminds. It's just like, we need to press record.

Kinsey Machos: 04:17

Like, this is real and raw, and I think that's important.

Sarah Mueller: 04:21

Absolutely. Like, I think the, it's like your listeners are going to get a chance to just hang out with us as girlfriends because that's. We can't help it. We can't help it. If we're going to hang out, we're going to talk about our kids, we're going to talk about our, you know, our pets. We're going to talk about our partners, if we have them, and we're going to talk about business. Like, it's just unavoidable. It, everything just kind of flows. And I love those. Those are my most favorite thing. This is why I make the time to go and hang out with people like you, because, you know, I love this kind of thing, and this is, it's just really nice to share it, you know, with other people.

Kinsey Machos: 04:57

So good. So I'm excited for today's conversation. I think it's going to be really fruitful in so many ways. But just for starters, I would love for you to share what you do, who you are, and really just give us a little bit of a snapshot of Sarah and who, at the heartbeat level, who you are.

Sarah Mueller: 05:14

Absolutely. Okay. So, yeah. So again, my name is Sarah Mueller. I am the founder of the decluttering club. We help millions, hundreds of thousands, millions depending on the day. We help women, primarily with messy homes, learn how to let go, clean up, and just make room for what matters in their lives. And I am so passionate about this because it's not just about the stuff. This is not just about you got to clean out your junk drawer, your sock drawer. It's about letting go of the things like the physical baggage in our lives and the emotional baggage, and they are so tightly related that you cannot address one without the other. And that is my mission. Right. I want to tell people, like, the world needs this so desperately.

Sarah Mueller: 06:04

I want to let people know that you can let go and you can have the life of your dreams, literally. Because I'm living proof of it. Right? So that's what we're all about.

Kinsey Machos: 06:14

So good. And if you've ever been wondering for anybody listening, if you can build a living off of what you're good at, I think that you're proof of this, Sarah, because it's like you help people declutter, okay? And you have a very successful multi seven figure business. And I think, again, it's just that validation that if you do it right, if you do it well, you can build a really insanely successful business around your unique brilliance. It's just a matter of really doubling down on that and having the story that fits that, because what I heard, it's not just about deep cluttering your homes. It's so much bigger than that. And it sounds like you're. You're really good at taking women on that journey. So I would love to know, though, like, how did you get into doing what you're doing?

Kinsey Machos: 07:03

What's that story look like?

Sarah Mueller: 07:05

Yeah. So I joke to my kids. I'm like, I get paid to tell people how to show people how to clean up their kitchens, and you guys are getting it for free. You know, they're not. They don't appreciate that, but it's true, right? Like, I hear people say, oh, my gosh, I'm not teaching people how to. How to make money. Like, how can I make a business out of this? And I'm like, listen, I teach people how to throw stuff away. So if I can do that, then you can do whatever you need to do, right? Like, whatever works for you. So I totally agree. Right? Like, it's like, what are you passionate about? And for me, it's. Yeah, yeah, it is about decluttering, but it's, you know, again, it's so much more than that.

Sarah Mueller: 07:45

And I think for me, it is a combination of, I love reaching people. I love marketing and selling things because I get to reach and help people. That is amazing to me. And I also love, you know, just showing them how to let go. So it's like this. This combination of those two things. How did I get started? I guess it was ten years ago. I was still married. I have four kids right now. They are between the ages of 13 and 24. So, you know, we have a pretty wide age span. But they were little back then. And so I had a very small, very part time business, and I thought I would love to have a product, right? Because I had. I was.

Sarah Mueller: 08:29

I was selling, like, ad space on my blog, so I was making, you know, I don't know, $10 here and there, you know, like, very minimal. But I thought it would be kind of cool if I sold my own product. That'd be fun, right? Like, I have things to say. So I decided to take my most popular blog post and turn it into a product, right? Package it up. Like, do more. And so I created my very first book, and that's called step by step decluttering. And we're actually still selling that today. It has really become, like, one of our flagship things. But once I started selling that, I was hooked because I was like, oh, this is fun, right? This is exciting. I get to go deeper with my audience

Sarah Mueller: 09:10

And that's really how the declaring club was born right in that moment where I started selling my own work. And it has evolved from there. I got divorced, obviously. Then I needed to make some more money. And my backup plan was always, well, if this doesn't work out, I will go get a job at Starbucks because, you know, that sounds like a good thing to do. And I can still, like, be around for my kids and I didn't have to, thank goodness, you know? And now we've built this amazing organization and we can talk about what that looks like. But, you know, went from making, like, probably $20,000 back in 2017. And now, like you said, we are multi seven figure and, you know, just reaching, like, literally millions of women and some men, and we just love it.

Sarah Mueller: 09:59

So that's the journey in a nutshell.

Kinsey Machos: 10:03

In a nutshell. I love that it's so hard. It's kind of like, what parts do I leave out? I mean, it's also good. But there's a couple of things that I would love to unpack. One of the things is this, you know, you mentioned getting a divorce throughout the growth of your business. And I think that I work with so many women and also have experiences personally where there's something that happens in our life that's really big or just really, it can feel so emotionally heavy. And I think as entrepreneurs, this is something. I think one of the biggest challenges is how do we navigate life and business while navigating life and business as a personal brand. When you have to have all the. Wear all these different hats, still protect the business and.

Kinsey Machos: 10:46

But also give yourself the room and space to grieve and heal. Can you talk a little bit about what that looked like for you and some maybe golden nuggets that you walked away with that other women, either they're in a season right now of just grief, whether that's just even feeling that personally, maybe it's kids, maybe it's relationships, maybe it's just pure, you know, insecurities. I think there's a lot of healing that goes into that. But I would love for you to share what got you through that season.

Sarah Mueller: 11:16

Oh, that's such a good question. I think probably I compartmentalize a lot of it, and I had therapy, and then I went through coaching, and I know you have a lot of that same. We have that shared background. I did find coaching and eventually got certified, and now I coach in my program. But I do also think that I really. I kind of compartmentalized, right. So I was like, okay, business. Like, we got stuff to do. I don't. I don't want to go get a job. So I got to figure this out.

Sarah Mueller: 11:46

And I was really focused on that and just able to, I guess, kind of set some of the other stuff aside, and for better or for worse, I don't know if that was the healthiest way to do it, but eventually, I have worked through so much, and now the cool thing is I get to share that with people in a way that feels authentic to me and also not, like, too much. Right? Like, I'm. There are definitely things that I have not shared yet, and I probably will at some point. But I think just, like, giving yourself the time and the space to, like, whatever's. Whatever's true for you, like, that's what we got, you know, we. In my membership, people ask a lot. You know, they're like, oh, you know, we.

Sarah Mueller: 12:30

I should be further along, or my husband wants us to, you know, he wishes I were done with this decluttering. And I'm like, listen, this is what we got right? Like, people can want that. That's fine, but this is what we got right. Like, this is what is happening right now. And I think I've always come back to that. You know, I may not be, you know, my life may not be the way that I want it to be or the way that I thought it was supposed to be, but this is what I got. So what am I going to do about it, you know? Am I. And I. I'm just not a person to shut down, right? Like, I'm the kind of person who goes and gets busy, right. And who takes action. So that worked out really well for me.

Sarah Mueller: 13:10

But at the same time, like, sometimes that's all you got, you know? And sometimes you. You do need to just pause and, you know, figure out what you're going to do, and maybe you do need to grieve or take some time, and that's okay, too.

Kinsey Machos: 13:23

Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful, Sarah. Thank you for sharing. I think goes back to just really this concept of just understanding our emotions and really walking us alongside of them versus letting them decide, letting our emotions decide what we do or don't do. And I think in some cases, right, there's. There's a need to hold a bigger space for them, you know, allow, you know, more processing or what have you, and sometimes it's just a matter of, okay, like, why am I feeling this way? Is this true or not? And what do I want to think and feel instead? You know, such a powerful reframe. And we have. I think we have a lot more power than we would like to believe sometimes.

Sarah Mueller: 14:06

Absolutely. Especially as women. Right. Like, I just feel like we hold the whole. Like, we're holding our families together. We're holding ourselves together, like, we. We do. We can do more than we realize. And also, like, a lot of us are really out of touch with all the feelings.

Kinsey Machos: 14:23

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a. That's a huge piece. I think if this isn't. If it's not something that's a strength of yours, yet it will become one, or it will. I don't like to say it's, like, so more, but it'll make or break you if you don't learn how to be with your emotions in a way that's.

Sarah Mueller: 14:42

Oh, my gosh, yes.

Kinsey Machos: 14:43

In entrepreneurship, especially because that's also the ebb and flow of all the emotion.

Sarah Mueller: 14:49

That is so true. Like, I can't tell you how many times I've thought, oh, my gosh. Like, it's. It's all falling apart. It's all a nightmare. And for me, it's usually hormonal. I'll be like, oh, wait, hang on. Is it true? Right, like you just said, is it true that it's all falling apart? It's probably not true. It just feels like that, you know, I probably had a bad day. Maybe, I don't know, somebody left a mean comment, or my kids left their socks all over the kitchen, or who knows, right? I think those little, like, we just forget and we just figure, oh, like, this is, you know, especially when we let our feelings build up and we're not paying attention to them

Sarah Mueller: 15:26

But it's really easy, at least for me, to just kind of go down that path and be thinking like, this is just all a mess. But it's not true. Right? And so I have really learned to. When I notice that, I just stop and I'm like, okay, what's going on? Like, why am I telling myself this? You know, what's actually happening? And then I can proceed, you know, then I can. Can do something about it. Or maybe not. Maybe there's nothing to do. But I think we just don't learn how to get in touch with our emotions, and then. But you can't outrun them forever. Sooner or later, they're going to catch up with you.

Kinsey Machos: 16:06

It's such a good example. I was talking, I picked up my six year old from golf camp today, and he was walking out, and his. He had kind of, like, a sad face. And I said, what's wrong? Everybody's being mean to me. I said, everyone? Who's everyone? You know? And he named, you know, one person. I'm like, oh, you know, so, you know, Joe is. Wasn't being very kind. What did he do? And he talked about it. And after that conversation, you could just see his whole body soften, because, again, our brains like to tell us that this, there's this big crisis, and we like to generalize, but when we start to, like, dissect it, so it's like, oh, okay. There's this little micro, this little. I'm gonna, like, isolate this thing.

Kinsey Machos: 16:48

This is what's happening, and it can allow us to move forward with even more clarity and confidence or just feeling more calm.

Sarah Mueller: 16:55

But you know, what I love about what you just said is that you didn't blow him off. You weren't like, oh, no, that's not true. You just asked some questions, so you didn't make him wrong for saying that. You just sort of helped him explore a little bit, which is such a valuable thing.

Kinsey Machos: 17:12

Yeah. And I think this is something that we need to do with ourselves more often. It's like that self coaching, right? Are we asking ourselves the right questions to lead us to some of those answers? And it sounds like this is, again, you know, part of the process of, like, okay, like you said, what do I need to focus on now? Why am I feeling this way? So, really getting to the point where you can, you know, I think therapy and coaching 100% with other people, but there's also value in learning how to self coach and just ask yourself better questions. So that's so valuable. Thank you for sharing. Also, let's talk about having four children and building a multiple seven figure business. Like, I have three, and I've, like, I can't imagine adding one more to the chaos. So tell us your secrets.

Kinsey Machos: 17:55

If you had to boil it down to. And it's probably what we've already talked about, but, like, describe what that's like, or give us your best tips for, because I know you're just. Your energy and the way that you talk about your kids, I know you're very. A very present mother, so we'll check that off. But underneath that, tell us how you do this. What are your. Your best kept secrets?

Sarah Mueller: 18:19

Oh, my gosh. I mean, you know, I do try my best, obviously, best tips. I think a couple things, I think, actually, like, well, first of all, you know, like, people say, oh, I could never do four, right? Like, you heard that. I'm sure people say that to you, right? Like, but one kid is alive, right?

And so it's two kids, so, yeah, four kids is a lot, but. But any kids is a lot. And I think, you know, like, thank goodness they didn't all arrive at the same time. So you just figure it out, right? You figure it out, and I think you figure it out. It doesn't. It probably doesn't look the way you think it's supposed to look. It. You know, it's not all neat and tidy. Like, it's not all. Like, it's not perfect, right? We have a plan.

Sarah Mueller: 19:03

Of course we do. But, you know, we have learned, and maybe this is what happens when you have four kids. You are just required to go with the flow more, right? Like, maybe you can kind of control things a little differently if you have two, let's say, and maybe they're a little bit older, they're not babies, but once you get to four, you have to have some element of surrender. You pick your battles, all of that. So I think that has been very much one of my strategies, and I have always been a huge proponent of everybody needs to contribute in the house. And so my kids have done their own laundry from the time they were like, I don't know, eight, maybe. Literally, they do that. I don't even remind them. I don't I'm like, this is their problem

Sarah Mueller: 19:50

They know how to cook. They're pitching in because. For so many reasons, right? I don't want to do it all, and I need their help, and it's. But it's good for them. It's good for them. But if you want your kids to be participating in that way, then you got to let go. You can't expect them to do it the way that you would do it. And I know so many people, they're like, oh, you know, they're just not going to do it right or it's too much work or, you know, and we have a whole course, it's called capable kids, where we teach parents how to guide their kids through doing. Doing chores and helping out around the house.

Sarah Mueller: 20:28

You have to be willing to let them figure it out, and you can't come back and, like, correct, you know, like, fix it behind their backs. They're going to know. You got to be willing to let them figure it out and contribute and do it their way. You know, pick. Pick your battles. Like, my kids rooms, like, they know how to clean up their rooms, but their rooms do not look like. Like, I keep my room, you know, and that's okay, you know? So I think a lot of that is really important. You know, I think we've also, like, as a single mom, like, I've let go of a lot of expectations and maybe, like, quote unquote rules about the way I thought, like, your life is supposed to look. Like, you know, we don't. We don't sit down and have dinner every day.

Sarah Mueller: 21:10

Shocker. 15 years ago, I was making dinner every freaking day, you know, and it was cooked from scratch, you know, and I think maybe I burned out on that. But we just don't do that anymore. Now, do we hang out? Yes, we do, but it doesn't look that way. And you know what? It's okay. Like, my goal is not to have dinner on the table every day. My goal is to invest in my kids. So there's lots of ways I can do that. And I don't feel bad about it, you know, that I'm not cooking. Whatever, you know, like, maybe a little, but try not to. So I think there's just so much value in, like, figuring out, like, what it. What is the actual result we want? Okay. It's connection or it's independence for our kids or whatever. Okay, cool.

Sarah Mueller: 21:56

How do we want to make that happen in a way that we're willing to commit to? Because I think that so many people, they think that they're supposed to do things a certain way, but that requires a lot of things that they just really don't want to do, and then they hate their lives. I'm like, why are you doing that? I'm confused. Why would you say yes to these things if you really don't want to do them? Well, it's because I'm feeling guilty, or I think I'm supposed to. Well, like, says who? Maybe. Maybe you don't have to. Maybe your kid doesn't have to play every single sport known to man. If you hate that, like. Like, it's okay to say no. That's another thing I do a lot of. I do say no a lot. You know I love you, and no.

Sarah Mueller: 22:37

I know I gotta say no a lot. Probably a lot. A lot.

Kinsey Machos: 22:41

We're. Apparently, our oldest has dubbed us the strictest parents ever.

Sarah Mueller: 22:48

Congratulations.

Kinsey Machos: 22:49

You'll appreciate that later. Maybe, maybe never, but it's fine. I don't have to have your approval. I love what you said, though. I do think most of the challenges around, even motherhood, is just like women trying to be someone they're not and being okay. It's like, I don't like to help out in the classrooms. And the first, you know, five, I don't know, five years or so, I. Even though I was working so much in corporate, I still found time to go in the classroom, and I hated it. And, like, even saying that at the time, I felt so guilty around that. I'm like, I'm supposed to love this. I'm supposed to be here, but I hated it. And so I don't help out in the classroom anymore.

Kinsey Machos: 23:30

But like you said, I invest my time and energy in other ways that align with me and also shows my kids that I want to be a part of their life. And I think that's so beautiful, Sarah, because it just gives women permission to select the things that truly light them up and that they can say yes to and be okay. Say no to the rest.

Sarah Mueller: 23:52

Absolutely. And, you know, I mean, don't we want to make. Set that example for our kids? Don't you want your daughter to know that when she. If she becomes a mom someday, that she doesn't have to, like, martyr herself for her kids? Right. If you want her to know that, then you have to live that, you have to be willing to also live your life separate from your kids, and you have to be willing to enjoy yourself, like, with them and with them. Right. And I think some, we feel like, oh, that's not the way a good mom acts. But I say, that's ridiculous.

Kinsey Machos: 24:24

That's ridiculous. Yeah. And it's reshaping. It goes back to even self concept. Right? Like, who do you want to be as a mom? And then what are the parameters around that for you? And it may even mean people just writing down, what do you not want to do and what do you want to do? And just, those are boundaries. Like that. Those are boundaries. Now you have boundaries, and then it's just a matter of falling through on those boundaries. Right. And saying yes or no. But that is, it's just such a good reminder for all of us.

Kinsey Machos: 24:52

I think we've likely heard this a time or two before, but, like, just taking the time to, like, self evaluate or do a quick self reflection of, like, where am I spending my time right now and where can I, you know, let go of some of this? So thank you for sharing that. Okay, let's get into. I have a couple questions. I want to talk about actual, like, decluttering and some concepts around that. But before that, I wrote down here that I wanted to ask you a, you mentioned you love marketing, selling. You don't hear entrepreneurs say that very often. I'm like you. I love marketing and selling to, but I would imagine that it's not just the thing of marketing and selling, but the mindset that you have behind it. And you've created a really great relationship with marketing and selling.

Kinsey Machos: 25:36

Can you share a little bit more about that statement about marketing, like, loving marketing and selling?

Sarah Mueller: 25:42

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a couple things, right? Like, I love, it's so fun to give advice and people do what you say. How fun is that? Right? Like, they come back and they're like, I did what you said and it worked. I mean, I get, like, I get such a thrill from that. So that is super fun for me. But also, like, I'm very much a numbers person and I love tracking things. So I feel like it's a little bit of a puzzle, you know? So if I am, I don't know, running a Facebook ad, like, oh, what are the numbers behind it? How can I get it to work better? How can I get it to reach more people? What are people interested in? So I really do feel like it's a puzzle. It's a challenge. It's a game.

Sarah Mueller: 26:24

It's a game to be optimized. So I do. There's the people aspect and then there's the numbers aspect. And what is my goal? I really just want to influence as many people as I can, people who have the problem that I can solve, I want to reach as many of them as possible. I want to benefit them. I want to benefit me. When they win, I win. And we all, you know, like, the world gets better. So why wouldn't I want to do as much as that as possible in a way that does not exhaust me, does not burn me out, you know, and serves the world? Of course

Kinsey Machos: 27:01

I love that. And I think what I'm hearing, too, it's like you're curious. You're curious about it, right? Like, there's a curiosity around it which keeps you hungry, which keeps you engaged instead of feeling like there's a right or wrong way to do it. It's just like, I'm going to put this out there and I'm going to grow curious around, you know, the numbers and whether or not it's working and what to optimize for. And I always share, even with my audience and my clients, how do we be more of a student with our audience? How do we really come at it with the approach of learning and growing curious to the feedback that we're getting, whether that is in the form of numbers or comments or, you know, people responding back to you. And I think that you're so good at this.

Kinsey Machos: 27:47

You're so good at reading your audience and knowing what they want and then just being that guiding light for them. And I think you do this really well for your marketing and selling.

Sarah Mueller: 27:56

Thank you. Yeah. You know, I wasn't always willing. Right. I think probably four, five, six years ago, you know, if you look back at some of my really old videos, it was very different because I wasn't sure if my methods worked. I was like, oh, I don't know, like, I really had, like, it was like an issue of belief, I think. You know, like, okay, I think stuff works. You know, some people seem to like it, but it was hard for me to say, this is what you need to do. This is how this works. Right. I couldn't necessarily coach with the same authority that I have now.\Sarah Mueller 28:31

And I think partly it's just because now we have so many more people that have gone through the program, and we have thousands and thousands of, we probably have maybe we have 100,000 customers by now. So partly that, obviously that helps, for sure. But also, I just worked on my belief, and that goes back to what were talking about before. What stories are you telling yourself? And when I really spent some time realize, oh, this works amazingly well, of course it works. And I needed that. And I think that's something that I think sometimes entrepreneurs, they're a little shaky on. You know, they don't have that super strongly. If you believe your stuff works, if you believe your product works or your method or your coaching, like, it's easy to sell. But if you're not sure it is, it's painful.

Sarah Mueller: 29:21

Like, you're like, I think you, I really want you to buy this, but I'm not sure. Like, how is someone going to say yes if you're not sure, you know, like, what if you went to your mechanic and he's like, well, I don't know, maybe I could fix your car. You want me to try? You'd be like, no, I'm good. I'll go somewhere else. Right? So we have to have that belief in ourselves. And once we do, it's like, forget it. Like, nobody can stop you. And you just want people to have what you're selling, what you have for them because you know it's going to change their lives.

Kinsey Machos: 29:57

So good. And to your point, Sarah is like, okay, for people that are like, well, I don't have a lot of social proof, or I'm not sure if it works. Like you had shared it. You cannot. It's about not looking to anything or anybody else but yourself. And if you think about a belief, right, a belief is a thought over many times over. There's probably a better way to describe that. It's a belief is something that you're thinking over and over again. So how do we just continue continuously think? I am good at what I do. I know I can help people. That's going to be the, that conviction and that energy will show through your content, through your videos, and that's going to be the thing that draws people towards you. It's not about fake it till you make it.

Kinsey Machos: 30:40

It's really just growing your own self context.

Sarah Mueller: 30:44

Right, right. And I mean, if you have nobody that's done it, then go find somebody. You know, go get some customers, try it out with them and be up front with them. Hey, I, you know, I would like to validate this method. Are you up for it? You can build that for sure. I think the other thing that happens, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, is that sometimes as entrepreneurs, we're like, well, I had some people who bought my product and they didn't get results. Now I'm making that about me. I think we have to be super careful there, but you can only give them what you've got. But they still have to do the work. We have people who show up and they purchase, and then they don't do anything.

Sarah Mueller: 31:29

Like, okay, well, then I can't make you do the work, but if you do show up and do the work, then I can tell you that this is going to have results for you. So we have to be super careful about what's my job as the entrepreneur and what's the customer's job, and then how can I facilitate, how can I make it as easy as possible for them? But I can't do their job. Right. I have to do my job. So I think it's important to be really clear about that.

Kinsey Machos: 31:57

Yeah. It's like if you were to buy, like, I just bought this hair supplement. It's like vitamin. It's supposed to help thicken your hair. Okay, we'll see. We'll see if it works. But it'd be like if I bought the supplements and didn't take the supplements and then complained that the supplements are working. Right. It's literally the same thing.

Sarah Mueller: 32:18

Yeah. You didn't open the package. Like what? Yeah, I was supposed to.

Kinsey Machos: 32:23

Yeah. So I love that you talk that you spoke to that, though, because I do think that's, that weighs heavy on people. And I think as, you know, people that are more, maybe even, like, empathic, it's sort of like they hold this, these responsibilities so heavy. You want to carry that for everybody else.

Sarah Mueller: 32:40

Yeah. You can't want it more than your customer. Like, that's never going to end well for. It's going to. You're going to be upset, you know, and they're not. They're going to be like, oh, you're supposed to fix it all for me. And that's, it's kind of like with our kids, right? Like, I can't want something more than my kids want it. Like, they have to want clean laundry. If I want clean laundry more than they do, I'm going to do their laundry, and then nobody's learning anything. So you have to be willing. You have to be willing. Yeah.

Kinsey Machos: 33:08

So, good. Okay, let's. I want to shift gears for a minute because what I, I want you to share, because you made a comment that you went from, like, 20,000 a year to obviously, multiple seven figures. Now, this wasn't overnight success, but you had obviously really great progression over those years. What would you say were some of the biggest contributing factors to that growth?

Sarah Mueller: 33:32

I think one of the things that I'm really good at is doing the same thing over and over and over again. Right. And it, you know, it's boring. And as entrepreneurs, we like to do new things and we want to create an invent, and I do that, too. But I think the reason that we are where we are is because we have refined, we have a, we have two memberships, and we show up and we have, like, our proven formula, we have the format we like, and we nail that. And it's not sexy to keep showing up and doing those things, but that's what works, right? And we run our, we have a couple challenges. We run, we have done the, one of them, I mean, I don't even know, 15 times. Right. It's the same challenge now. We make it better. Right.

Sarah Mueller: 34:24

And we mix it up a little, but it is still the same challenge. And I think so many people, they're just so quick to give up.

Kinsey Machos: 34:30

Right.

Sarah Mueller: 34:31

Like the first time I did this challenge, the organism boss challenge, it did not look the way it does now at all. Now it's like, I don't know, it's like a 300 line item project plan, and it requires, like, 30 people to deliver. It's insane. But it didn't look like that the first time, and it evolved over time. So I think as entrepreneurs, it's really easy to just give up on something. And partly it's because, you know, we don't like to have things not work out the way we want them to. You know, we're comparing ourselves, which is like a whole big, you know, another thing. But we just don't give things enough of a chance to really know, like, is this going to work the way, does this have potential? We're like, oh, I tried that twice. Doesn't work. No.

Sarah Mueller: 35:21

Come back when you've been doing it for four years.

Kinsey Machos: 35:23

Yeah, yeah. Or too. Yeah. Tell me when you've done it ten times, then we'll talk about it.

Sarah Mueller: 35:28

Yeah.

Kinsey Machos: 35:29

That's so good.

Sarah Mueller: 35:30

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, if you don't like money, okay, fine, do whatever you want. But if you like money, if you need to support your four kids, then don't keep starting new things. Don't keep going like, and it requires discipline. Right. And we don't like that. That is not fun. That's like a dirty word for entrepreneurs. But I think it's just so valuable because what it means is then you can have the freedom. Things will build over time. We have recurring revenue. It pays off the bills. It's phenomenal. I never worry about making payroll because we're serving our members, and so we can have a great month or we can have not a great month, but it doesn't matter because I'm not starting from zero every month because we have built that foundation. But that took a long time.

Kinsey Machos: 36:20

Yeah. And I think that it's so important to know that even though we're just. So we have all the creative ideas, right. All the time. I'm guilty of this. It's like, oh, this sounds way more fun, or this sounds better. And I can always justify that new idea, but it requires so much more time and energy to start up a new idea, whether that's a new offer or a new conversion event. And then it does just to continue. Like, it's like that an object in motion stays in motion, right? So it's like how, like, how do we just keep reinvesting our time and energy and even money into the thing that's already in motion to continue to optimize?

Kinsey Machos: 37:00

Because every time I think I have the best idea ever, once I start getting going on it, I'm like, God, I'm like, shit, man, this so much time and energy, right?

Sarah Mueller: 37:11

Yeah.

Kinsey Machos: 37:12

And it's so. It's so easy to forget, though. It's so much easier said than done, too, right?

Sarah Mueller: 37:17

Because it's fun to start stuff that is super fun. But then it's like, I got to deliver. Like, oh, you know, just like, then the reality sets in and you want to say yes to things that you're willing to commit to for the long term. Right? Like, I don't want to do stuff that's just going to work, like, today. I want something that's going to be working for years. But I don't know. I guess the flip side is that I don't know if this is going to work for years, right? But I can't keep changing gears. I think the other thing, I think that has been really important for me and for our growth is just being willing to recover after what feels like a failure. And I've had.

Sarah Mueller: 38:06

We've had months where we hire someone and it feels like they're doing great or we run a promotion, and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, my gosh, we just lost, like, $50,000. That feels so horrible, especially when you could have used that $50,000. So coming back from that kind of thing is so painful. And it's not even really about the money, although it is. But it's like, am I willing to try this again? Am I willing to put myself out there just emotionally to say, I'm gonna. I'm gonna try this again. I'm gonna take another risk, and then again and again. Right. Like, I think if we're not. If we're not failing, we're. We're not really even setting very big goals. We're just kind of, like, inching along. So we have to be willing to fail. It's required, but it's.

Sarah Mueller: 38:58

It can be so painful.

Kinsey Machos: 39:01

I feel that wholeheartedly. And I think, too, that when you're exposed to new levels of success and growth, sometimes that even. It can feel even heavier. Kind of like, well, I'm at this level. I shouldn't be. It's almost like a bigger hit to the ego. Maybe I haven't quite figured that out, but it's like, it shouldn't be this way. Right. And you have to, like.

Sarah Mueller: 39:22

Yeah.

Kinsey Machos: 39:22

Again, like, coaching ourselves through that. Like, this is a part of that process, but it can feel really heavy.

Sarah Mueller: 39:28

Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious for you. I know you have an amazing circle. You have, like, all of these relationships. How has that. How has that changed your journey, you know, in terms of, like, business friends and mentors and things like that?

Kinsey Machos: 39:43

Oh, that's such a good question. I think that it really creates this because sometimes it can feel like a. What you're going through is like, you're like a unicorn, which can feel very isolating. Right. But then when you have a connection, when you have a network of people that know you and love you and are doing things that you're also doing, and you have these conversations about what you're going through, and they're like, oh, shit, I just went through that, you know, last year, or, oh, I'm totally in a season like that. Or, you know, there's like this, you can normalize it and it softens a little bit. But also, then on the flip side, there's this expansion that occurs, right. It's that proximity is power.

Kinsey Machos: 40:25

And I think, like, you always want to be not the smartest person in the room because we're only. We only see what. It's almost like. We only know what's possible based on what we can see sometimes. And we need to expand our horizon as far as what's actually possible. And best way to do that is to literally rub elbows with people that are doing that. And it, like, it tells your brain of, like, oh, like, she's not much different than me. If she can do it, I can, too. Does that resonate with you?

Sarah Mueller: 40:58

Absolutely. Yeah. That has been really instrumental for me, just being around people who are doing cool stuff. That's exciting. Maybe I could try that or, you know, or she came back after that. You know, that. That has been really helpful. We can kind of learn from other people's, like, mistakes and failures, and then maybe we don't have to go through them.

Kinsey Machos: 41:18

Yes. Oh, so good. I am so grateful for friendships like yours and, you know, others along the way because I do feel like that, you know, people just hold space for you when you need it. And I think when you go out into the general, quote unquote public, you are really anomaly. You know, it's like, weird. This is like, oh, but then you, and then you get into, like, your little, you know, pockets of fun entrepreneur friends and you're like, oh, okay, this is my. Really?

Sarah Mueller: 41:46

Yeah, I know exactly what that's like. Whereas your neighbors are going, what?

Kinsey Machos: 41:49

Yes.

Sarah Mueller: 41:50

Wait, what are you talking about? Yeah.

Kinsey Machos: 41:52

So weird. It's like, it's like twilight zone. But that's why it's so important to have a network of people doing what you're doing. Okay, before we wrap up, Sarah, I do want you to speak to decluttering. Like, I want to know, I think, what do you even consider clutter and what is why? I guess I'm, like, curious about the science behind it. Like, why do people have clutter? Like, what is happening even in the brain when people decide to hold on to things? Or even if you could give a definition for clutter, speak to that.

Sarah Mueller: 42:26

So I consider, you know, clutter is anything in your possession that is not serving you. That's what I call clutter. You know, and sometimes people comment one of my Facebook posts and they'll be like, I love my clutter, so leave me alone. And I'm like, guess what? That's not cluttered. Like, if you are all in, right? If you love the things in your house, like, I'm good. I'm not going to tell you to get rid of it, right? It's when those things are causing you negative consequences. They're not serving you for whatever reason, right? They're in your way. You know, you don't like the way they look, you actually don't want them in your house. Maybe you're keeping them for other reasons. We talk about that in a second. That's what I consider clutter. Right?

Sarah Mueller: 43:09

And obviously, if we have family members, we have kids, we have partners, we have parents, that's going to further complicate things, right? Because you might think it's clutter and they disagree. So that's a whole nother ballpark. We talk about that all the time in the membership. But why? I think if we had to boil it down to one reason, I think it is fomo. I think FoMO is driving all of the clutter. Fomo and fear. So it's like, I think, well, FoMO and fear and people just not having motivation, right. Like they're depressed or whatever to clean up. So it's like I might need this, I might miss it. I'm afraid nothing this good is ever going to come along again. Right. That is all driving.

Sarah Mueller: 43:58

Why are we keeping things that we don't really want to have or we're just afraid, you know, someone's going to get mad at you that you let it go, Orlando. You know, you just, you can't handle the feelings, right? You have things from someone that you love and that you lost and you don't want to deal with. What am I gonna, you know, what am I gonna feel when I open that closet? You know, I don't want to handle it. I don't want to deal with it. So I'm gonna keep that closet closed for ten years and I just don't want to think about it. Right. So I think that is really driving the accumulation.

Sarah Mueller: 44:35

And the thing is, if we are not decluttering, right, if you are not letting things go, you are by default becoming more and more cluttered because you're going to be bringing stuff home, you're going to be shopping or going to be buying things. So if you're not evening that out, then the tide is turning and the water is rising. So that's why we do what we do, because people, they just don't know how to let go and they need some guidance along that way.

Kinsey Machos: 45:05

And so how does, how do you see that clutter is impacting people?

Sarah Mueller: 45:12

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, a million ways. Right. It's raising your stress levels. Right. It's raising, I believe there's a statistic and I don't know exactly what it is, but it's like raising your cortisol. So that is having a real measurable effect on your health. Right. You might be like, oh, it's, it's kind of just in the way. No, it's actually way worse than that. It's raising your cortisol. It is causing you to waste time if you are strapped for time. Busy mom. Right. Four kids. Four kids. Three kids. I don't have extra time to waste. So I don't want to be, like, hunting around through things. I don't want to be messing with things that I don't really want. You know, my space is very valuable, but the most valuable thing that I have is, like, my head space.

Sarah Mueller: 45:59

If I'm thinking about that pile of laundry or that closet that I don't even know what's in there, then that is brain energy that I am not using for something else. We can talk about the money that's lost. People buy all kinds of duplicates. They lose things. They have late fees for credit cards. They buy extra groceries. We have people that will join our membership, and they'll learn kitchen zero, which is one of the things we teach. And their grocery bill goes down, like, the first month, because now they have a place to cook, and they don't mind cooking. They enjoy their kitchen more. Who knew? So, you know, so there's just. I mean, I feel like it's. There's this tremendous ripple effect. People lose weight. They start decluttering because they feel better.

Sarah Mueller: 46:51

So, you know, we can just go on and on about all the benefits of decluttering. So it's having a huge effect.

Kinsey Machos: 46:59

Yeah. I think, just, like, the space that we live in, it should be our sacred space, and which should generate feelings of peace and calm. And I would imagine that having physical clutter obviously creates that mental clutter, which then impacts how you experience your own home. And that's important. So when you have people come into the decluttering club, what would people expect? Like, what are they learning? Why do they need to be taught how to declutter? Because I'm sure people are walking away from this, like, oh, I can just go through and, you know, throw a few things away.

Sarah Mueller: 47:32

Yeah. I mean, no, you can, right? Absolutely. I think what happens is that people can. Maybe they can do a little, or maybe they've got a deadline, right? Someone's coming over, they're having houseguests, and so they freak. They panic clean. They throw everything behind closed doors, or maybe they do thrift stuff out, but they haven't really learned anything. They haven't really actually made a change. So we teach people how to work on their homes, their spaces, like, in ten minute segments, which is just really counterintuitive. People think, I can't do for ten minutes. I need to work for 10 hours. But you can't do that over the long haul. So we teach them how to work in very short bursts, but then to keep going and to do it every day or maybe do it several times a day.

Sarah Mueller: 48:19

And so that's really a game changer for a lot of people, that they learn how to do it in a sustainable way, in a way that fits in with their lifestyle, with their current health or their job or whatever, it makes a really big difference. And beyond that, we just have a lot of fun. I think one of the things that happens when you have a cluttered space is that you're very isolated. You probably don't have people coming over. You're not having the family dinners that you used to have or the holidays. So we have a lot of fun. And one of our core values is empowering community. So we just have a great time. And that is so valuable to a lot of our members because they're like, oh, my gosh, people get me.

Sarah Mueller: 49:01

I'm actually enjoying the people and actually the process again. So it kind of completely does, like, a 180 in terms of how they feel about, like, cleaning up their homes. And, you know, when you enjoy something, then you can do a lot more of it. So that's a huge difference.

Kinsey Machos: 49:17

Oh, so good. And I'm even thinking, like, you know, we. You know, because I think, too, people might get this idea of, like, I'm thinking of that show. What is that show on maybe, like, HGTV or whatever, but, like, these, you know, people that have been, like, hoarding stuff for years and years. Yeah, but like that. But I think about even with, as a family of five, we're not hoarders of stuff, but it's kind of close. But you walk into our house, you wouldn't see that. But I am feeling like sometimes, you know, I have to take a whole weekend to, you know, clean closets, do drawers declutter? And it's like, what I'm hearing from you is like, well, let's not take our off a whole weekend to do that.

Kinsey Machos: 50:03

You know, once a quarter, let's actually install the habits and the rituals throughout our every day to really keep the clutter at bay and really have more freedom in our home. Freedom in our life. Right?

Sarah Mueller: 50:17

Yes. Right. Like, if you can make it part of, you know, part of your day or part of your week, it's just so much less painful.

Kinsey Machos: 50:24

Right.

Sarah Mueller: 50:24

If your kids know, hey, oh, you know, hey, this is, you know, these socks have holes, mom. I'm gonna throw them out of amazing. Now we don't have to be like, oh, we have nothing left. Right? Because we haven't thought about this for three months. All the sacks have holes. No. You know, you're looking at it on a regular basis, like it becomes part of daily life as opposed to like an exception. And then it's just so much more, so much easier to commit to and maintain.

Kinsey Machos: 50:54

Yeah. Oh, so good. I have some. My brain is unlocking a lot of things. So thank you for sharing that. We're going to link up. Do you have, are your doors open right now to your membership or are they closed?

Sarah Mueller: 51:06

Yeah, not right now. But we do have a free challenge that people can join at any time. So we'll get the link for that you can share and people can come in and get an email based challenge. They can get some really quick wins. We love to get things like we love to give quick wins upfront so that you can see, oh, I don't need the ten hour. I don't need the whole weekend. Who has a weekend? I don't know. Not me. And if I didn't want. I don't want to spend. Right. So we have that and we share all kinds of great stuff on social. You can find us, we're everywhere on social at the decluttering club or decluttering club. And the website is thedeclutteringclub.com dot.

Kinsey Machos: 51:48

Awesome. We'll put all those links in the show notes. This is so great. So with just as a wrap up, what I love to ask is obviously at the category queen, we really are focused on helping equip women to just be in their most authentic selves and build their life around their unique brilliance. And I think, again, you are such a perfect representation of this. So just some parting words for women that want to live this lifestyle of feeling really aligned with the business that they're building, but also aligned with their life and starting to really recognize and, you know, amplify their unique brilliance. What are some parting words that you are parting advice that you might have for our listeners?

Sarah Mueller: 52:29

I love that question. I think we talked a little bit about being in the right circles and having people around you who will inspire you. And I think that's so important. But I think it's also really important to know. I think we, especially as women, I really think that we know what we need to do and we're probably just afraid. Like that doesn't sound, you know, maybe it sounds too simple or it sounds like silly or whatever. I think if you can notice all of the oh, that's what I need to do. Like those are the things you should do because we have this intuition, and if we can tap into it is incredibly powerful. I think everything that I have done, I've been thinking about this for ten years, right? Like, I had that idea ten years ago.

Sarah Mueller: 53:15

I just wasn't ready to do it, you know, I didn't think it was a very good one, but turns out it was. So I think, don't discount, you know, your knowing, because it is. It's there for you for a reason, and it's probably. It's probably way more powerful than you realize.

Kinsey Machos: 53:38

I just got goosebumps. Thank you, Sarah. This was such a beautiful conversation. Again, thank you for just being so vulnerable and open and transparent. I think that there's so many just amazing golden nuggets within this conversation. We definitely took quite the journey, but I think, again, just really showing the whole version of you, I think is important and just allowing people to see that this is what it is. And there's the ebbs and blows along the way. So thank you again today for your time.

Sarah Mueller: 54:07

Sarah, thank you so much. Kinsey, it's been a pleasure.

Kinsey Machos: 54:10

Amazing. All right, my friends, I will see you next time.

Kinsey Machos: 54:14

Hey. If you're ready to stand out online and get paying clients consistently without having to fumble your way through tech run ads or create complicated funnels, I want to invite you to join us in the category queen school, where you're going to learn my simple, proven formula for getting clients online.

Kinsey Machos: 54:32

It's risk free.

Kinsey Machos: 54:34

You either make your money back, or we'll give you a refund. Just head over to kinseymachos.com/theCQschool, and join today to get instant access. We'll see you inside.